Earth & Moon Correlation Question

[Nokton]

Originally Posted by dmill1220

I Totally Agree with that Stuart!
it does seem a like a far stretch, but It does seem like a plausible deduction at least the Climate part.
I would rather reason that not only our System has done this before but so have others and I also would hope that this may have cleaned up the Impact events from meteorite hits. Id rather think optimistically!
It makes me wonder though if our Asteroid belt is a remnant of one such particular Strike, plus the rings of Saturn, and the newly discovered ring on one of the other gas Giants I cant remember which one also has a ring
that Oscillation may have caused this in the past, and to say that it will occur again to me is a long shot indeed. there is alot of space in between objects!
I would like to speculate, that time, and other objects bieng disturbed enough in the past may have cleaned things up a bit by now.
Though alot of scientists say that its not a matter of, if we get hit again, but more like When.
what I did find interesting though was the Additional radiation we would encounter as we pass thru the dense portion of the Galactic Plane.
In your opinion is this Oscillation a fact or just an educated deduction from previous observations?
Dennis

.
Dennis, the radiation you refer to, as we pass through the Galactic Plane, is nothing compared to the effect on all life on earth when the
earths magnetic field changes its polarity.
For thousands of years we have no shield to radiation, from our sun,
or from the rest of the galaxy, just our atmosphere.
Once read Dennis, that evolution was never a gradual thing, but occured
in 'spurts'. Just a thought, perhaps there a correlation between the
increased radiation during a polarity switch, and the emergence of new
species....Appreciate your opinion.
Peter.

[dmill1220]

Hi Peter!
I do remember reading somewhere of those theories.
It does make sense.
Not long ago I believe it was on the Science Channel, I watched a Show addressing exactly that which you have mentioned!
But here is something that they also mentioned,
the Earths Magnetic field is already starting to change!
Normally the magnetic lines of force emanate from one pole and enter the other pole, but now, reaserchers have found several magnetic anamolies on Earth, where these magnetic lines are no longer emanating and returning, where they are normally supposed to, that is, they are now entering and leaving in parts of the Earth, that are not close to the poles at all!
I can see where a loss of our magnetic field could possibly cause a genetic mutation of species, resulting in new species, or the demise of others but there are also many other factors that could cause mutations besides Cosmic Rays and Gamma rays and just climatic factors, but there is also evidence in the geoligic record of our magnetic poles reversing, they found this on a certain type of rock strata that align themselves with the magnetic poles. a very interesting problem indeed!
a Massive GRB would also cause some major problems if it was close enough to Us also.
I found a good link Regarding our motion of the Solar System around our Galaxy http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/que...php?number=402
They do make a reference to mass extinctions, and Apocalyptic Doomsayers, as a byproduct of these Oscillations, but that to me is too speculative, and Im really not into that style of thinking although it does sound plausible!
but the radiation inference is a little disturbing and a good deduction! remember that this is still far off in the future, but still has Scientific relevance to our life on Earth.
Dennis

[stuart]

Originally Posted by dmill1220

It makes me wonder though if our Asteroid belt is a remnant of one such particular Strike, plus the rings of Saturn, and the newly discovered ring on one of the other gas Giants I cant remember which one also has a ring that Oscillation may have caused this in the past, and to say that it will occur again to me is a long shot indeed.

...

Though alot of scientists say that its not a matter of, if we get hit again, but more like When.

...

In your opinion is this Oscillation a fact or just an educated deduction from previous observations?

To the first point, no, the astoid belt is not a result of an impact because there is not nearly enough matter in the asteroid belt to make even an object the size of our moon, much less a planet.

I believe the new ring you're refering to is a small sub-ring around Saturn near Enceladus.

For the second point, yes, it's not a matter of if, but when the next big impact will happen.

For the third, I'm pretty sure that our motion in and out of the galactic plane is a pretty well-established "fact." It can be thought of like this: Unless we are exactly in the middle of the galactic plane, there will be a net gravitational force towards the plane. So we will get pulled towards it, but our momentum will carry us through the plane, but the gravity will pull us back, etc. So we oscillate.

As to the magnetic field flipping, this is very obvious in the Atlantic ocean, since the magnetic polarity of the rocks is striped, parallel to the mid-ocean spreading zone, which indicates that the field reversed throughout time. But the reversals have happened at random ... however, the average time for the reversals is significantly less than how long it has been since the last reversal, and so statistically we are due for one.

However, since this has happened many times in the past, I sincerely doubt that we will have quite as much trouble as implied by Peter. Rather, it's not as if the field simply shuts off for thousands of years and then comes back in reversed polarity, but rather fades, becomes pocketed, and eventually reverses. And, since this has happened quite a bit before and life still exists, and over a dozen times while humans were evolving, we really shouldn't have any issues with extinctions due to this ... but our electronic infrastructure could see some serious problems. I found a Wikipedia article that looks pretty good for this topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

[dmill1220]

Hi Stuart!
thanks for clearing that up for me!
The reason for my assumptions, that the asteroid field may be a remnant, was that I was under the impression, that most of the impact matter left over from such a strike would have by now impacted other Solar bodies, or may have been gravitationally slung shot either out of our system or towards the sun,or Jupiter.

As far as the Magnetic field of Earth, I thought Peter was implying that this was way in the past, while the earth was forming, Earth Mach 1, or earlier. before we acquired our moon by the theory of the Orpheus impact, that some scientists say was a fortunate strike at a good angle, which caused a double strike and merging of the cores of our planet and Orpheus which lost its Iron core in the impact, which then also formed the Moon, just outside the gravitational field that would make it strike back on Earth for a third and final time.
its only a thoerized (Orpheus) Impact, its a very speculative idea that does seem plausible.

Magnetically, I do agree that it would be just a reversal without a total loss, due to our molten Iron Core, which would litterally have to stop its rotation to cause such a loss. although the slowing down of the earths rotation by the increased loss of our gravitational effects of the Moon on our planet as it recedes, should slow down or weaken our magnetic field some.
I wasnt sure that our motion around the Galactic Plane was actually proven by observations and that this Info was currently accurate at this time since we seem to find out new things all the time I look for dates of these discoveries and I didnt see one on the link that I had found.
Thanks Amigo!
Dennis

[Nokton]

Originally Posted by dmill1220

Hi Stuart!
thanks for clearing that up for me!
The reason for my assumptions, that the asteroid field may be a remnant, was that I was under the impression, that most of the impact matter left over from such a strike would have by now impacted other Solar bodies, or may have been gravitationally slung shot either out of our system or towards the sun,or Jupiter.

As far as the Magnetic field of Earth, I thought Peter was implying that this was way in the past, while the earth was forming, Earth Mach 1, or earlier. before we acquired our moon by the theory of the Orpheus impact, that some scientists say was a fortunate strike at a good angle, which caused a double strike and merging of the cores of our planet and Orpheus which lost its Iron core in the impact, which then also formed the Moon, just outside the gravitational field that would make it strike back on Earth for a third and final time.
its only a thoerized (Orpheus) Impact, its a very speculative idea that does seem plausible.

Magnetically, I do agree that it would be just a reversal without a total loss, due to our molten Iron Core, which would litterally have to stop its rotation to cause such a loss. although the slowing down of the earths rotation by the increased loss of our gravitational effects of the Moon on our planet as it recedes, should slow down or weaken our magnetic field some.
I wasnt sure that our motion around the Galactic Plane was actually proven by observations and that this Info was currently accurate at this time since we seem to find out new things all the time I look for dates of these discoveries and I didnt see one on the link that I had found.
Thanks Amigo!
Dennis

Hi Dennis, and thanx Stuart, for the input.
No Dennis, there have been many reversals throughout Earth history,
the record in the rocks shows reversals at around 200 thousand year
intervals, the last one though was about 700 thousand years ago, so
we certainly due one soon. Present measurements taken on recently cooled magma indicate a 10% loss in field strength over the last 300 years. Dennis, it has now been shown that 'pockets', within the molten
core change their polarity over time, a process not fully understood but
proven by the logs of ancient mariners, and the reason magnetic North
changes over time. Once the size of the 'pockets' reaches a critical
point, the rest of the core switches to the new polarity.
Never suggested extinctions occured because of this, rather an
increase in Natures diversity by way of 'mutations' of the genetic code
caused by the increase in radiation during periods of dimished magnetic
field strength.
Dennis, my source is a programme I watched a few days ago on
Discovery Science, will send you details of the scientists involved when
I can. Perhaps they have web sites, stay cool.
Peter

[dmill1220]

Hi Peter !
thanks For clearing that up for me
I knew about the magnetic changes, but I didnt know that they had discovered individual pockets that had already reversed themselves!
So, if I understand you correctly, does this imply that after enough pockets are reversed, the poles will follow suit? I thought they hadnt reversed yet, I knew about pockets where fields have relocated, I just didnt know that some had already reversed!

What do you think will happen when the Earth slows down over time, to the Iron Molten core, that produces that magnetic Field?
Dennis

[Nokton]

Originally Posted by dmill1220

Hi Peter !
thanks For clearing that up for me
I knew about the magnetic changes, but I didnt know that they had discovered individual pockets that had already reversed themselves!
So, if I understand you correctly, does this imply that after enough pockets are reversed, the poles will follow suit? I thought they hadnt reversed yet, I knew about pockets where fields have relocated, I just didnt know that some had already reversed!

What do you think will happen when the Earth slows down over time, to the Iron Molten core, that produces that magnetic Field?
Dennis

.
Dennis, my friend. We as beings, will never know. It will take thousands
of years for the full effects to be felt.
Dennis, the reversal process already started.
Dennis, from memory now, the main contributer to the programme
was one Coe, from some university in California, you can find him Dennis.
He got a magnetic record from the rocks, and the main contributor.
Dennis, the whole core is in a state of unstable currents.
The core is not as coherent, as we currently think.
Dennis, think of a mass, within which there much perturbance.
Eddy currents that realign their magnetic poles through a procees
we not understand. Dennis, am so pissed about what Man is doing to
Man
much localised stresses.........

[dmill1220]

HI Peter!
I did find some references as to what you have mentioned, very interesting!
I am not concerned with the when, since I know that its far in the future, and I surely wont see anything, or even my immediate descendants will either. but thought should be given, and preventative measures enacted ,wherever we can apply them.
I agree with your frustration, as to Mankind, having the foresight to see ahead, but not to act upon what is obvious!
Nothing lasts forever!
Its amazing that with all the scientific advancements that we have made, we are still on a destructive course, not only for ourselves, but for our Planets environment also.
I see alot of potential for Mankind, and We can only hope that sooner or later, Reason will win!
We may not ever have to worry about Scientific Discoveries that can affect life as we know it here on Earth, since we will most likely destroy ourselves way before that anyway! or at least that seems to be our present course.
But I must keep an Optimistic attitude, and keep questioning what I don't understand and, help the ones that don't Understand either , and need a rude awakening.
I have hope! and a Will to sway others that don't have it!
I love Science! we have come so far so fast!

Yes, I am A dreamer of things to come, and of things foreseen by our Science. but thats just my nature I like to think ahead as far as possible.
its too bad others don't see what is really happening or could happen because they claim, ah it wont effect me!
Cheer up my Friend there is hope!
Dennis

[Nokton]

Originally Posted by dmill1220

HI Peter!
I did find some references as to what you have mentioned, very interesting!
I am not concerned with the when, since I know that its far in the future, and I surely wont see anything, or even my immediate descendants will either. but thought should be given, and preventative measures enacted ,wherever we can apply them.
I agree with your frustration, as to Mankind, having the foresight to see ahead, but not to act upon what is obvious!
Nothing lasts forever!
Its amazing that with all the scientific advancements that we have made, we are still on a destructive course, not only for ourselves, but for our Planets environment also.
I see alot of potential for Mankind, and We can only hope that sooner or later, Reason will win!
We may not ever have to worry about Scientific Discoveries that can affect life as we know it here on Earth, since we will most likely destroy ourselves way before that anyway! or at least that seems to be our present course.
But I must keep an Optimistic attitude, and keep questioning what I don't understand and, help the ones that don't Understand either , and need a rude awakening.
I have hope! and a Will to sway others that don't have it!
I love Science! we have come so far so fast!

Yes, I am A dreamer of things to come, and of things foreseen by our Science. but thats just my nature I like to think ahead as far as possible.
its too bad others don't see what is really happening or could happen because they claim, ah it wont effect me!
Cheer up my Friend there is hope!
Dennis

Dennis, you speak for so many without a voice, welcome dreamer, one
to another. Who can challenge you that never embraced the impossible?
Dennis, my thoughts as yours, you make this old mans day,
Peter.