The Spaghetti affect

[Nokton]

OK, this is a hobby horse of mine.
The spaghetti effect relates to anything drawn into a black hole.
The concept of it, is so flawed, and in denial of reason.
Albert, made the undeniable point that as gravity increases, time
slows down. So what of a body entering the gravity well of a black
hole. The feet would move more slowly than the head, due to the
increasing gravity, and the slowing of time.
There would be no spaghetti effect. Never was.
A PHD told me, there is no time for this to happen.
Rest my case
Is this how we think and reason today? Afraid so.
Nokton

[Dragon Star]

Agreed there is a void in clarification, as I had issues with this before, but there would be enough time for this to occur because it would happen pretty far away from the singularity. It's once you get close to that, that time appears to slow. Tidal Forces happen quite far away from the singularity and the majority of warped space.

If this imaginary astronaut is falling feet first towards a black hole, his feet are closer to the center of the black hole than his head. The force of gravity is therefore stronger on his feet than on his head. The difference in pull creates what is called a tidal force. This makes the astronaut (or anything else that gets too close) stretch out long and thin. The difference in time would actually have no effect. You have to remember that time frames stay to their own, anything outside of the frame is different from things outside of the frame. To the feet, they feel super acceleration toward the singularity and watch as the head takes longer and longer to accelerate, and time appears to remain the same. To the head, the feet appear to super accelerate toward the singularity and it takes longer for the head to catch up, while time appears to remain the same because both frames of reference witness the same effect.

Yes the time is different, but the effect remains the same.

[Nokton]

Originally Posted by Dragon Star

Agreed there is a void in clarification, as I had issues with this before, but there would be enough time for this to occur because it would happen pretty far away from the singularity. It's once you get close to that, that time appears to slow. Tidal Forces happen quite far away from the singularity and the majority of warped space.

If this imaginary astronaut is falling feet first towards a black hole, his feet are closer to the center of the black hole than his head. The force of gravity is therefore stronger on his feet than on his head. The difference in pull creates what is called a tidal force. This makes the astronaut (or anything else that gets too close) stretch out long and thin. The difference in time would actually have no effect. You have to remember that time frames stay to their own, anything outside of the frame is different from things outside of the frame. To the feet, they feel super acceleration toward the singularity and watch as the head takes longer and longer to accelerate, and time appears to remain the same. To the head, the feet appear to super accelerate toward the singularity and it takes longer for the head to catch up, while time appears to remain the same because both frames of reference witness the same effect.

Yes the time is different, but the effect remains the same.

Hi Dragon,
Thankyou for your response. That we can agree to disagree
makes for good science. Contention is the way forward, but only with
an open mind and dialogue together. I feel science is a learning curve.
Science eschews dogma, religion, in quest for true knowledge
about who we are, what we are about, and understanding where we
are going, hope you understand my point Dragon.
Watched a docu yesterday that to many the earth is only 7 thousand
years old. Another time perhaps....
For now dear friend, can you do math? Given Alberts equations, there
is a ratio for time and gravity. Can you indulge this old man, please?
Nokton

[Dragon Star]

Originally Posted by Nokton

For now dear friend, can you do math? Given Alberts equations, there is a ratio for time and gravity. Can you indulge this old man, please?
Nokton

Are you asking for a rate of expansion? What specifically do you want me to compare?

I think you might be asking how much this is actually off...so here goes. They say 7,000 years? Hmm...current estimates say 13,700,000,000 years, give or take 200,000,000. This makes their estimate 1,957,142(.8) times less then scientific evidence supports.

1.9 Million times their claim is quite a bit off indeed.

[Nokton]

Dragon,
All I was asking my friend, is and was, does time and gravity
have a linear relationship, just expressed a feeling that it did.
If it does, the spaghetti effect theory falls flat.
All I was asking you, was do you have a friend, skilled in math,
that could produce the equation to say yeh or neh.
As for the event horizon of a black hole, just theory, as is the singularity.
Dragon, the distance between what is believed and what is true is vast,
truth cannot change, our understanding of it does, over time.
Dragon, time is a dimension we ignor so much, yet is so relevent to our
perception and understanding of what we perceive to be, reality.
Enjoy dialogue with you.
Nokton

[Buldric]

I have to admit, I didnt read all the posts, so please excuse me if someone has already stated this, as I'm running between classes. But I thought i'd interject this.

As it is true, that Einstien DID say that time would slow down, at the same time, he states that the object becomes longer, and more massive.

I think the equasion looks something like

L2=L1/sqrt(1-(V^2/C^2)) Or something like that... Derived from the famous E=mc^2 Dont ask me to break it down...my mind would break down first.

Clear Skies,
Buldric

[Nokton]

Thankyou Buldric your response.
You take care now, mean it. Stop running between classes lol,
you have no running to do.....
You think, more than many... That get you through.
Yes I know about Alberts contention, but make my point again
Buldric, is the ratio between gravity and acceleration linear?
If it is my friend, then the spaghetti effect not occur. If it is not,
then may we explore the implications of this in our search for truth
and understanding? Point is Buldric, a black hole is just one candidate
for what we observe but not yet understand.
Perhaps it may be a neutron star, a Black star, a Gravestar.
Enjoy dialogue with you. Just tell your teacher, you got delayed by
an old man who never said his prayers.
Nokton

[Buldric]

Hmmm, I don't belive that acceleration is used in the equation, but I would have to do the break down to see if it appears in the process, and if it does indeed come into linear proportion with length. However, I don't remember coming across that proportion, either directly or inversely. I'll try to look into it, but dont hold your breath =p

Clear Skies,
Buldric

[Nokton]

Buldric,
Dwell with this old man, young man, with so many qualities
of thought.
Time, according to our friend Albert, is based upon two theories.
Gravity and speed of the one observing. both slow down time. the nettle
in the hand of the observer.
There is no denying Alberts equasions.....
But, poses a question. We grasp the nettle, but do we understand it?.
Buldric, it is up to you and your generation to grasp the real truth.
Please, young man, challenge what you are taught, most of it is false.
Nokton